Imagine being just weeks away from your wedding and finding out through a third party that you've been fired from your church. This is exactly what happened to Wes Gay.

In this episode of Life After Ministry, host Matt Davis and guest Wes Gay dive into the difficult transitions from church ministry to marketplace success.

Together, they explore what it means to be forced out of a role you thought defined you, and how to build a thriving career outside the church while using the same skills honed in ministry.

1. Unlearning Church Culture: Transitioning from ministry to the marketplace often requires unlearning assumptions about money, leadership, and success.
2. Transferable Skills: Skills developed in ministry - like empathy, communication, and leadership - are highly valuable in other sectors, including sales and business development.
3. Navigating Identity Crisis: Being a pastor may feel like your entire identity, but it’s an assignment, not who you are at the core.
4. Financial Freedom Is Not Shameful: Christians need to rethink the role of money in their lives. Financial success can be a tool for greater impact and service to others.
5. Practical Transition Advice: Start building a portfolio or exploring new opportunities before a crisis forces you into change.

1. "You are not your job title, and leaving ministry doesn’t mean you stop doing ministry."
2. "The skills you develop in ministry - leading, teaching, and caring for people - are incredibly valuable in the business world."
3. "For Christians, making more money isn’t evil - it’s a tool that can create more opportunities for impact."

• [00:00] Introduction – Matt Davis introduces Wes Gay and recounts their first meeting during Matt’s early StoryBrand journey.
• [02:52] Fired From Ministry – Wes shares his story of being unexpectedly fired just weeks before his wedding.
• [06:18] Repeated Job Loss – Wes explains the pattern of being let go from multiple ministry roles and its emotional toll.
• [08:26] Deciding to Leave Ministry – Wes describes his turning point in deciding not to return to ministry, despite applying for numerous church roles.
• [11:36] Unlearning Ministry Culture – Wes shares what he had to unlearn from church culture to succeed in the marketplace, including assumptions about money and leadership.
• [14:25] Identity, Assignment, Calling – Matt and Wes discuss the framework of identity, assignment, and calling, and how to navigate transitions with these in mind.
• [17:17] How Ministry Prepared Wes for Business – Wes discusses how his experience in ministry helped him transition into StoryBrand and the marketplace.
• [21:54] Transferable Skills – Matt and Wes explore the transferable skills pastors can bring into the marketplace, including communication and empathy.
• [24:58] Christians and Financial Success – A discussion on why financial success is not something Christians should feel guilty about.
• [28:07] Using Pastoral Skills in the Marketplace – Wes reflects on how his pastoral skills continue to influence his business relationships and how they’re still a form of ministry.
• [31:45] How to Communicate Clearly as a Church – Wes provides practical advice for churches on dropping the jargon and communicating clearly with their congregation.
• [37:40] Closing and Contact Info – Wes shares how listeners can connect with him for marketing advice or transition coaching.

Imagine standing at the pulpit after your last sermon, knowing it's not just the end of a service, but the end of your ministry journey at that church. What happens next?

In this episode of Life After Ministry, Matt Davis sits down with Matt McGee, founder of The Last Service Podcast, to explore the difficult transitions pastors face when they step away from ministry. Whether it's through burnout, church closure, or simply moving into a new season, Matt McGee has seen firsthand the emotional toll and the challenges that follow.

This episode tackles the question, "Is there life after ministry?" with a powerful reminder that ministry doesn’t end with a job title.

1. You Are Not a Failure: Leaving ministry - whether through a church closure or a transition—does not define your worth or calling.
2. Find Community After Ministry: Pastors must actively seek support, guidance, and pastoral care when leaving ministry to avoid isolation and burnout.
3. Reshaping Ministry: Ministry is not confined to church walls; it can happen anywhere - whether teaching in a school or simply being present for someone in need.
4. The Pain of Transition: Both pastors and their families carry deep emotional scars during church transitions, but acknowledging and processing these feelings is key to healing.
5. Proactive Pastoral Care: Churches should plan for pastoral transitions with intentionality, bringing in help and creating space for joy and healing, rather than letting the process turn solely into a business decision.

1. "You're not a failure. Mistakes happen, but they don’t define the Spirit of God or your calling."
2. "We are believers in resurrection, and just like death brings new life, leaving ministry can lead to new beginnings."
3. "Ministry isn't about the pulpit - it’s about being a godly influence wherever you are, whether that’s teaching at a school or working at Burger King."

• [00:00] Introduction – Matt Davis introduces Matt McGee and the conversation begins with ministry transitions.
• [00:50] Early Ministry Calling – Matt McGee shares his journey into ministry and how God led him to serve in the church.
• [06:18] Transitioning Out – Matt McGee describes the internal and external factors that led to his departure from church ministry.
• [11:23] The Breaking Point – A difficult leadership dynamic and unaligned values lead Matt to a crucial conversation with his pastor.
• [14:59] Aftermath of Leaving Ministry – Matt shares the emotional and practical challenges his family faced after his sudden departure.
• [19:16] Community Support Post-Ministry – How Matt's church community responded after he left, and the importance of maintaining healthy relationships.
• [21:30] Returning to Teaching as Ministry – Matt’s journey back into education, this time with a renewed sense of calling and mission.
• [25:29] Redefining Ministry – How stepping outside church walls changed Matt's perspective on ministry and service.
• [29:56] Last Service Podcast – The inspiration behind Matt McGee’s Last Service Podcast, which explores church closures and transitions.
• [33:42] The Importance of Pastoral Care in Transitions – How church leaders can approach closures with care and attention to the emotional needs of their congregation.
• [36:58] Encouragement for Pastors in Transition – Matt offers words of wisdom for pastors facing their final service, reminding them they are not failures.
• [42:06] Conclusion – Matt McGee shares where listeners can find The Last Service Podcast and other resources.

What happens when you step away from the calling you’ve always known and venture into the unknown?

Jordan Whilden found himself at that crossroads, leaving behind nearly a decade of church ministry for an uncertain future in the marketplace.

But this episode of Life After Ministry is not just about leaving; it’s about rediscovering purpose, redefining ministry, and understanding that God's calling often transcends job titles.

Jordan's journey from pastor to CEO of Ministry Hub reveals how stepping away from a church role doesn’t mean stepping away from serving the Kingdom.

In this episode, Matt Davis talks with Jordan about the anxiety that comes with such a leap, the lessons learned, and how God continued to use his gifts in new, impactful ways.

For anyone wrestling with the question, "Is there life after ministry?" - Jordan’s story offers hope, clarity, and insight.

1. Transitioning Well: When stepping out of vocational ministry, it’s essential to take time for self-reflection and healing before jumping into the next chapter.
2. A New Kind of Ministry: Jordan’s experience shows that leaving church staff doesn’t mean leaving ministry. There are ways to serve the Kingdom that may have even broader impacts.
3. A Pastor’s Heart, Reimagined: Even when Jordan stepped into the marketplace, he carried the heart of a pastor, finding new ways to shepherd leaders through Ministry Hub.
4. Building Clarity: It’s crucial to understand your strengths, desires, and God’s calling before leaping into a new career - clarity leads to thriving.
5. Supporting Transitions: Ministry Hub focuses on helping pastors and churches navigate transitions effectively, recognizing the unique needs of both sides in today’s job market.

1. "As soon as I stepped into the marketplace, there was a breath of fresh air - freedom I didn’t realize I needed."
2. "Just because you leave the church doesn’t mean you leave ministry; I found a way to invest more in the Kingdom in a broader way."
3. "The goal is to land in a place where you thrive - where you can be the most fruitful in your calling."

• [00:00] Introduction – Matt Davis welcomes Jordan Whilden, founder and CEO of Ministry Hub.
• [00:10] Early Ministry Career – Jordan discusses his calling into ministry, starting as a high school pastor and moving into discipleship roles.
• [01:59] Decision to Leave Church Ministry – Jordan explains the factors that led him to leave his pastoral role, including burnout and church culture changes.
• [04:02] The Fear of Transition – The emotional and practical challenges of leaving ministry, and how Jordan navigated his “day zero” in stepping away from vocational church work.
• [05:14] Life After Ministry – Jordan reflects on his first Sunday post-ministry and the process of finding a new church home.
• [08:13] The Birth of Ministry Hub – How Jordan’s passion for connecting people and creating systems led to the development of Ministry Hub.
• [11:54] Serving Pastors in Transition – Jordan shares insights on what pastors look for when transitioning out of ministry, and how Ministry Hub supports them.
• [13:42] Serving Churches in Transition – Ministry Hub’s innovative approach to helping churches find new leaders through scalable, flexible staffing solutions.
• [17:26] Encouragement for Leaders in Transition – Jordan gives practical advice to pastors in transition, from crafting clear resumes to knowing their personal calling.
• [20:56] Redefining Ministry Beyond the Church – How Jordan sees his current work with Ministry Hub as a broader way to serve the church and the Kingdom.
• [23:45] How to Connect with Ministry Hub – Jordan shares how pastors and churches can connect with Ministry Hub for help in transitions and staffing.